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Sitefinity Thunder for Visual Studio 2017

With the release of Visual Studio 2017, I would be very interested in seeing full Thunder support for it. http://www.sitefinity.com/developer-network/forums/thunder/support-for-visual-studio-2017
  • Dylan Hollinden
  • Feb 3 2020
  • Will not implement
Original Submit Date 2017-06-08
  • Brian Lovett commented
    03 Feb 11:13
    Thank you Dylan for submitting this. I am not sure why this takes so long and there is no customer communication about it that I have seen. VS2017 has been out for a while and was in RC state for much longer. Explaining that you are working on it, what makes it SO difficult to get out in a timely manner, and when it might be expected would go a long way to alleviate frustration (or maybe even just two out of those three).

    Last time folks might been able to finagle the previous version's extension package to get it working. However, with VS 2017, the extension system has been updated and it would take a lot of effort to give this a go.
  • Guest commented
    03 Feb 11:13
    What Brian said multiplied by 10!!
  • Guest commented
    03 Feb 11:13
    We're looking to take our Sitefinity implementation to Azure, and the improved support for Azure in VS2017 is important to us. Support for Thunder in VS2017 is therefore also necessary.
  • Steve McNiven-Scott commented
    03 Feb 11:13
  • Brian Lovett commented
    03 Feb 11:13
    Is there a reason that conversation is not being held where Sitefinity developers can easily find it? I have done a lot of searching, and that never came up. The Thunder plug in page in the marketplace and the Sitefinity forums come to mind. There is actually a thread on the forum that points here. Is there a problem with the forums that prevents you guys from using them?

    Also, now I have to create YET ANOTHER login to be able to participate in the conversation...
  • Peter Filipov commented
    03 Feb 11:13
    Hello all,

    Thank you for creating this thread and sharing your thoughts. We will gather all of the feedback in the different channels and keep you updated for the upcoming steps.

    Peter
  • Guest commented
    03 Feb 11:13
    +1
  • Guest commented
    03 Feb 11:13
    +1
  • Brian Lovett commented
    03 Feb 11:13
    Any news?
  • Guest commented
    03 Feb 11:13
    +1
  • Guest commented
    03 Feb 11:13
    deleted by beheer1
  • Guest commented
    03 Feb 11:13
    Thanks for creating this idea +1 and voted
  • Brian Lovett commented
    03 Feb 11:13
    Would it be possible to get some kind of update?
  • Brian Lovett commented
    03 Feb 11:14
    What we've got here is failure to communicate. Is the tool still being worked on?
  • Guest commented
    03 Feb 11:14
    I think we are all out of luck. Seems like Sitefinity keeps giving love to UX devs but backend coders are just left to the wolves. Unless the code is dropped on GitHub like Feather and other things, we are all going to just hold out for the next great CMS to come along, with VS2017 / Core/ etc. support.
  • Guest commented
    03 Feb 11:14
    To quote @PeterFilipov:
    "12 June 2017, 16:05
    Hello all,

    Thank you for creating this thread and sharing your thoughts. We will gather all of the feedback in the different channels and keep you updated for the upcoming steps.

    Peter"

    What's that now, 4 months? No updates, not even a word!
  • Steve McNiven-Scott commented
    03 Feb 11:14
    To be fair, the release cycle IS about 3-5 months so we're still in the window

    Personally I'd just love this think to be OS on github so we can just add features to it instead of having to wait...
  • Guest commented
    03 Feb 11:14
    The update I was referring to was communication, not the actual software itself.

    All we'd like to know at this stage is whether or not the product will continue and so far Progress has given no indication of this. In fact there were hints that they weren't clear on a direction.

    Progress is notorious for bad communication, documentation and vision/direction changes that quite often have negative implications for both developers and SF clients.
  • Guest commented
    03 Feb 11:14
    It seems so easy to change the license since they don't charge for Thunder and you need a Sitefinity instance up for the benefits to really come into play. You need to activate the module on the server, so there is no security concern. They could remove that functionality in the OS version and just leave the templates, tools, wizards etc.

    Sitefinity doesn't obfuscate the code and we all could just decompile it/ reverse engineer it but it would get removed from GitHub without a legal license. Somebody just needs to let us lose on it. Just get legal to change the license. hint, hint.
  • Brian Lovett commented
    03 Feb 11:14
    I think that the overall product is awesome, and the times I have had to deal with them through their ticketing system, they have been stellar. However, that's stuff that the potential customer can't see. If they could get their public communications act together, I think that they would be a beast in this segment. Personally, I think that it would be worth their money to have a small team of people dedicated completely to that task, acting as a liaison between their devs and the public to keep the lines of communication here, other sites, and on social media open.

    To me, this is much more about the lack of feedback than the missing tool.
  • Steve McNiven-Scott commented
    03 Feb 11:14
    @Brian Yeah https://twitter.com/Peter_S_Filipov is a one-man team for that... for some stupid business reason (after the Progress acquisition) they STOPPED giving roadmaps and updates, which were great to be getting.
  • Veronika Milcheva commented
    03 Feb 11:14
    To all in the group,
    My personal opinion is that Sitefinity Thunder is and should be only a helping tool that speeds up development. If you cannot develop without Thunder, then maybe you should rethink your proficiency in the product.
    I also confirm that some things might be better in terms of speeding up the feedback and have a more transparent communication in front of customers, but I double the praise about Sitefinity support. You can always open a support ticket if you have any issues with achieving something.
  • Guest commented
    03 Feb 11:14
    I triple agree with support tickets. Great response, follow up, etc. I don't like that I put in a kb item and it gets moved over to a support ticket when I was wanting to share the solution with the community. But the problem or code question always get fixed or answered same day.

    Didn't they have developer evangelists before? I don't think they do now or at least they aren't as vocal. It was a developer evangelist that got me on-board with Sitefinity years ago. It was his help that got me started. He's not at the company anymore.
  • Steve McNiven-Scott commented
    03 Feb 11:14
    Yeah Peter (https://twitter.com/Peter_S_Filipov) is the current (and best imo) evangalist... it's only ever been the 1

    - Gabe Sumner
    - Chris Eargle
    - Tim Williamson (?)
    - MASSIVE GAP OF NOBODY
    - Peter Filipov

    I wrote an article on this a while ago before Peter
    https://www.sitefinitysteve.com/blog/code/2014/11/17/is-sitefinity-not-evangalizable
  • Veronika Milcheva commented
    03 Feb 11:14
    @Aaron: True that there are no more evangelists but there is a new concept now - Developer Experts: https://developer.telerik.com/community/developer-experts/. Some of them for Sitefinity are:
    - @Steve McNive-Scott
    - Myself
    - Vesselin Vasilev
    - Jochem Bökkers
  • Guest commented
    03 Feb 11:14
    Happily switched to Umbraco, FWIW. Sitefinity went all marketing-y on us. It seems progress forgot that Telerik is for developers. Ah well. Umbraco is rocking it.
  • Steve McNiven-Scott commented
    03 Feb 11:14
    ...yeah, there's a lot of marketing releases :/ It pays their bills, but I would love my job to be easier

    - Improved data api (easier to update content without needing to get a masters degree in knowing the exact steps to checkin\out\publish an item...get one thing wrong or out of order and the data is just borked in SF)
    - More helpers
    - Move stuff from being marked Internal FASTER, let us test with it... like the health check stuff, why is this still Internal, it's cool, needed, let me beta it.
    - Thunder tooling... don't want to remotely connect to my side, but I want tooling to help me crank out widgets or designers faster.

    ...I don't want DEC and marketing stuff
  • Guest commented
    03 Feb 11:14
    @Steve, @Veronica.. thanks on the updates and history. I think it was Chris Eargle back in the day. I looked up the names and he's on my xbox friends list and LinkedIn, so it was probably him. I only come back to Sitefinity every other year or so then get pulled off on other stuff, then come back.

    They should definitely just open source more and get out of the developer's way if they aren't going to provide that role to us. IMHO
  • Guest commented
    03 Feb 11:14
    @Ali - do you feel you've lost anything major in the move to Umbraco? We have a bunch of customers who are not happy with Sitefinity.

    @Veronika - Thunder is there exactly for the purpose of efficiency not proficiency.. Calling into question developer proficiency is hardly an appropriate nor a well thought through response.

    If Progress is so disinterested in the product and feel that developers should simply be more 'proficient' then why not open source it?
  • Steve McNiven-Scott commented
    03 Feb 11:14
    Eargle was a great guy, and I think a C# expert, but knew nothing about Sitefinity at all. Was I think hired because he could code, didn't last very long in the role.
  • Veronika Milcheva commented
    03 Feb 11:14
    @Jacques: Absolutely agreed about efficiency point. I haven't intended to point anyone as being not professional as a developer. It was more like pointing that "If there's a wish, there's a way".
  • Guest commented
    03 Feb 11:14
    @Veronika The code I've seen over the years would have been better started by Thunder than by hand. Unfortunately none of those developers go look on GitHub for inspiration or guidance and then get frustrated and just bypass Sitefinity all together. And with no Thunder 2017 they are probably going to keep bypassing Sitefinity.
  • Guest commented
    03 Feb 11:14
    Anybody look at Yeoman or just putting templates in another from scratch VS extension? I tried to search but haven't found anything. I know there are other code templating tools but thinking about just VS or something free.
  • Veronika Milcheva commented
    03 Feb 11:14
    @Aaron: I agree with you. I've seen several bad-written projects in my experience but keep in mind that the misuse of the product is causing it's bad reputation in most of the cases. I am trying to push for a mentoring service that partners and proven certified developers can do to help organizations getting better experience.
    With or without Thunder, projects quality will not be improved. Some people start using the tool even without having complete understanding how the things work. They are using it not as a helper but as a tool that does the job for them.
    And don't get me wrong - I also voted for better Thunder support :)
  • Guest commented
    03 Feb 11:14
    @Veronika: That mentoring thing would be cool. I'd vote for that initiative. Sometimes the same thing told from an outside source is better.

    True about understanding. I think that understanding helps you appreciate the tool not that the tool helps understanding. I'm on board with you there.
  • Peter Filipov commented
    03 Feb 11:14
    Hello all,

    I read all your comments and I agree with you that the new version of Thunder should be open source and we will work in that directions if in end provides more value to you.
    There are many tasks in our backlog with different priorities and we are still polishing the roadmap for 2018. It’s not that we don’t have or don’t want to share roadmap details, but as a public company we are limited in what we can share about our future plans.

    The good news is that I can share some information with you today - our target is to deliver a new version of Thunder with Sitefinity 11.0 (Mar/Apr 2018). I hope that I will be able to provide more details about what this will look like in the next month or so. I want to assure you that we monitor all communication channels and are working very hard on it. We want to make your life easier by providing a useful tool. In case that you have concerns and want to share more feedback please feel free to reach me out (I always answer back😊).

    P.S. We will have a Sitefinity 10.2 beta release tomorrow, so you can play with some of the upcoming new features until the official release next month.

    Regards,
    Peter
  • Brian Lovett commented
    03 Feb 11:14
    Peter,

    Thank you so much! This is the kind of communication that I think so many of us are looking for.
  • Guest commented
    03 Feb 11:14
    @Jaques, It’s worth understanding Sitefinity is targeting larger customers, and for smaller/simpler projects, it’s often more than enough. The open source ecosystem and plugins are excellent. Dev model is better. It is missing the marketing functionality, some flexibility, some integration, and some of the polish around the editing experience, and the documentation is definitely lacking. I would suggest thinking about it as a NuGet package or library that adds content services to an ASP.net MVC project. If you have a play with it, I think you might be surprised at just how much you can get away with.
  • Marcin Dziegielewski commented
    03 Feb 11:14
    February 2018 and still does not work with VS 2017...
  • Steve McNiven-Scott commented
    03 Feb 11:14
    ...if it was OpenSource we could have used it by now and could have had some cool community contributions. 1 click DynamicContentType->flat Poco anyone
  • Dylan Hollinden commented
    03 Feb 11:14
    This was just sort of buried in the Sitefinity 11 version notes, but it looks to be Thunder's replacement.

    https://github.com/Sitefinity/Sitefinity-VSIX/blob/master/README.md
  • Peter Filipov commented
    03 Feb 11:14
  • Guest commented
    03 Feb 11:14
    Visual Studio Community Plz!!

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